*Thread Reply:* Good Morning Steve,
Very informative day.
Just curious to learn that once we create feature file, from the project management perspective, do we need to create a separate ticket in JIRA to see the progress?
thanks 🙂 .. as well if anyone is interested to come to a meetup tomorrow, we are hosting one - https://www.meetup.com/Community-for-Agile-Testing/events/240414477/
*Thread Reply:* do you have a tweet about that meetup we can RT from @cucumberbdd?
*Thread Reply:* hello @matt-SmartBear sure here it is thanks https://twitter.com/GrumpyTester/status/882709594530885632
Twitter
*Thread Reply:* @Aslak Hellesøy sorry missed this messg. But i suppose you had already left white city and were at a safe distance 😉
*Thread Reply:* It was good! We did a day of BDD fundamentals (biz/IT collaboration and example mapping), then a day of Cucumber. Great discussions too.
*Thread Reply:* hey @swagatobhatta do you mean for PHP backend, with JS frontend?
*Thread Reply:* Yes. I am trying to create some simple automated testing for our website. However, I will like to find some very basic tutorial - something like when a user submits all form elements, he gets the thank you page, advertisements at certain positions on pages are always there etc. Thanks
*Thread Reply:* @swagatobhatta for PHP I can’t recommend Behat (Cucumber for Behat) enough. The documentation over there is excellent. http://behat.org/en/latest/guides.html
If you are looking to do bdd in php it’s behat http://behat.org/en/latest/, but js frontend you have different flavours of javascript testing frameworks. I’m currently using Webdriverio, which is lightweight framework for frontend automation. http://webdriver.io/
Hi I'm Stephen Gates using Gerkin for the first time to define acceptance tests for Data Curator - share usable open data https://github.com/ODIQueensland/data-curator/blob/master/README.md
Checkout the Cucumber School if you want a video.
I have written a few blogpost that might interest you, http://www.thinkcode.se/blog/category/Cucumber http://www.thinkcode.se/blog/category/BDD
And feel free to ask in the help channel if you need help.
*Thread Reply:* I would suggest doing less talking about it, and more getting on and showing how it’s done. If you can demonstrate results, they won’t mind what you call it.
*Thread Reply:* Hi @mlvandijk - let me introduce you to @Aslak Hellesøy @brasmusson @mpkorstanje who would love to help you find a way to contribute 🙂
*Thread Reply:* @tooky Thanks! I noticed there's a first-timers label but no open issues with that label in cucumber-jvm
*Thread Reply:* @Aslak Hellesøy Just created my first (very small) pull request on the docs.cucumber.io - I'd also be happy to help merge & update old documentation 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Sorry about the lack of tickets for new comers. I'm afraid I haven't spend much time keeping track of simple problems.
The docs definitely need work. Especially for cucumber-jvm. Since you're new to both cucumber and jave, feel free to ask about anything that is missing. Perhaps we can whip the documentation into shape that way.
Beyond that, I'm very much a proponent of "scratch your own itch" so what is itching?
*Thread Reply:* We're in the process of migrating docs from various locations to the https://github.com/cucumber/docs.cucumber.io repo. Another high priority "issue" is to tag all open issues and make it easier for new community members to contribute. Right now a lot of people are on holiday, which is why it's a bit slow.
*Thread Reply:* @mpkorstanje @Aslak Hellesøy Thanks. No itches of my own atm as far as how everything works. I did notice the info about updating the documentation, so I thought that might be a good place to start (hence my very first pull request on that very project); also I noticed I couldn't create a pull request if I did exactly what the readme said, so I updated that as well. If/once that gets accepted/merged, I could continue with other parts of the documentation, either from existing documentation and/or missing bits. Btw, I've been using java (mainly for test automation) for 2-3 years and Cucumber since January.
*Thread Reply:* Owh that is not so noobish. How are you liking/using the dependency injection at the moment?
*Thread Reply:* At my current job (as of January) we use Spring. I would say... I have a lot to learn. 🙂
*Thread Reply:* My previous job we did test automation with Java/Selenium only and the software was developed by an external vendor. Using Cucumber and working in the same code base & with the developers directly are major improvements!
*Thread Reply:* @Aslak Hellesøy Re: documentation - What is the relationship between the docs.cucumber.io project and the cucumber/website project? (Is either one the eventual intended target for all documentation? If so, which one?). Re: tagging - I'd be happy to add tags I as go through the issues on the cucumber-jvm project looking for something I understand / might be able to fix/build, but I don't think I can (yet?)
*Thread Reply:* @mlvandijk all the Cucumber reference/tutorial/technical docs in the cucumber/website repo are being moved to the cucumber/docs.cucumber.io repo, which will eventually be hosted on https://docs.cucumber.io, replacing the GitBook based docs from the cucumber/cucumber repo. It's a bit confusing, I've tried to summarise it here: https://github.com/cucumber/docs.cucumber.io/blob/master/README.md
*Thread Reply:* @plaindocs has already copied most of the old docs over to a branch: https://github.com/cucumber/docs.cucumber.io/tree/sw-reorg. We'll merge that back to master as soon as it builds cleanly (the branch is currently failing because of lots of broken links).
*Thread Reply:* @Aslak Hellesøy Thanks! Yes, it was a bit confusing; your overview helped though! I'll have a look at that branch then to see what needs doing(?)
*Thread Reply:* also, in order to be allowed to add labels I'd need write access (https://help.github.com/articles/applying-labels-to-issues-and-pull-requests/).
*Thread Reply:* @Aslak Hellesøy As I am going through the issues to see what (if anything) I understand, should I make suggestions on how to tag them and how/where?
*Thread Reply:* Hi @mlvandijk I can give you access to tag issues - what's your GitHub user name?
*Thread Reply:* I don't think so.. According to github help I should see a checkbox next to issues?
*Thread Reply:* Did you accept the invitation to the Cucumber committers team yet? You should have an email...
*Thread Reply:* mainly I was thinking I'll just add labels like the language or framework issues are about (even if I might not be able to help on the actual issue); that would help people find the issues right?
*Thread Reply:* Adding labels would be super helpful - thanks a lot!
*Thread Reply:* Avoid asking individuals directly because a) they might not be around and b) that might deter others from responding
*Thread Reply:* -Unless you're in an active consversation like now 😉
*Thread Reply:* If you have cucumber-jvm specific questions there is a <#C5YHPPJMP|help-cucumber-jvm> channel
*Thread Reply:* Can you apply labels after accepting the invitation @mlvandijk ?
*Thread Reply:* I see the checkbox. Will try in a bit (real life calls)
*Thread Reply:* I’m guessing Software Development Engineer in Test
*Thread Reply:* Nice! I love software development but my true passion is genetics/bio-sciences. That's what my degree is in 🙂
*Thread Reply:* the developer channels are a good spot for plumbing, issue reporting, triage, questions of integrating other tools INTO the thing developed
*Thread Reply:* (My train of thought was "perhaps @ carries special meaning in PowerShell?")
*Thread Reply:* https://ss64.com/ps/syntax-esc.html This is me guessing!
*Thread Reply:* Indeed, the @ character in PowerShell did have some special meaning.
*Thread Reply:* perhaps all you need is to cucumber -t \@wip to not mean "the beginning of an array or a here doc, etc"
*Thread Reply:* Now, I wonder, can it find any other annotation? Your original Slack mention had @@wip, not @wip, which is it?
*Thread Reply:* --% was the PowerShell way of saying "none of the characters after this will be any special characters".
*Thread Reply:* Cool stuff! Would IDE's like Rubymine still recognise the step definitions?
*Thread Reply:* I don't think any JetBrains IDEs (Rubymine, IDEA, WebStorm) support Cucumber Expressions yet
@magnus80 The PageObject pattern can be used in acceptance tests (which can be defined in "Step definitions" connected to a Cucumber behavior spec).
Avoid calling it "cucumber tests", you risk confusing people.
For Ruby, there are many systems for this. One of them is called page-object. It assists Watir or Selenium-WebDriver acceptance tests with page objects.
https://github.com/cheezy/page-object
Useful link: https://martinfowler.com/bliki/PageObject.html
Another useful link: https://martinfowler.com/bliki/TestPyramid.html
hello! I'm Yasser. We use cucumberJS to pretty much drive all of our opensource and nonopensource tests in a way I hope isn't too odd 😅. Giving a talk on cucumberJS in Berlin this Tuesday (https://www.meetup.com/Node-js-Meetup-Berlin/events/239795428/)
*Thread Reply:* Hey you might know the answer to this. We’ve been building test results features into Cucumber Pro and had an onboarding session earlier this week with a prospect who uses SpecFlow. We weren’t clear whether SpecFlow supports a similar JSON formatter output to the other Cucumbers. We heard there might be a plugin that does it.
Can you enlighten me any about this? 😄
*Thread Reply:* I'd be happy to set up a #specflow room in here BTW
*Thread Reply:* Let's discuss over there @matt-SmartBear @matt-SmartBear
*Thread Reply:* @pano I'm curious. What benefit have you gotten from namespacing your steps? To me, that seems like a complication that would make them harder to read without being a programmer, so I'm interested in hearing how it's working out for you.
*Thread Reply:* @gdinwiddie One of the main projects in this company is of quite moderate size. Currently, it has approximately 2500 step invocations. They find it very convenient that a step name could be used with different meaning in different contexts. For example, there is a step I decide to compose a new message. The implementation of this step is quite different depending on which page of the Web app you are at. If they didn’t have the scoped steps feature, they would have had to prefix their step names with context specific prefixes. E.g. 1) When being at purchase order page, I decide to compose a new message 2) When being at invoice inspection page, I decide to compose a new message
To be honest, I don’t understand your misgiving that steps that are defined locally rather than globally would be more difficult for non-programmers to read. As far as I can tell, the difference is not obvious to the reader of the Scenarios. Except from a tag that is attached at the Feature or Scenario level (see: Turnip scoped steps and the tag feature). On the other hand, I believe that it makes the non-programmer reader life easier, because the step names are shorter without the prefixes to scope them.
I have also met Spinach which offers the same feature. It seems that there is a need out there for this feature. I have met other companies using Spinach for the same reasons.
*Thread Reply:* When having a conversation about the application, do you find yourself saying things like "No, I mean a purchase order message, not an invoice message?"
I understand that scoping is a technique that programmers readily reach for when ambiguity arises. I think it's a technical solution to a people problem, though. And, in my experience, it leaves out the people who stay in natural language, where the scoping doesn't apply.
The desire for scoping, in my opinion, is an indicator of lack of clarity in the discussion. Using a generic term "message" to refer specifically to one of many different things is bound to cause confusion in conversations.
*Thread Reply:* If I'm understanding things correctly, you could then have multiple 'I send a message' steps in a feature file but they could all do different things and it's not apparent unless you're looking at the step definitions?
*Thread Reply:* If so, that sounds like it could lead to a lot of confusion when reading a feature file as it sounds like the same message is being sent to everything.
*Thread Reply:* I'm also not a fan of spinach after reading through some of its Readme. 😞
This type of step writing is what I very much try to avoid
Given I have an empty array
And I append my first name and my last name to it
When I pass it to my super-duper method
*Thread Reply:* What about these two scenarios, in different features?
Given an insurance expires
When a claim request is coming in
Then it should be rejected.
Given a customer does not fill in all the policy request details
When the request is coming in
Then it should be rejected.
The step it should be rejected is very easy to read and understand in the context of the previous steps and specifics of the feature. But their implementation is different. The it refers to different things. But the reader does not really care about it. It is an implementation detail. The requirement is 100% accurately specified.
What is your opinion about such cases?
*Thread Reply:* My first reaction would be to specify it in the rejected step. The claim request should be rejected
*Thread Reply:* Your suggestion to prefix the step name with context specific information is our worries here with Cucumber. It makes the steps more verbose without reason. And this does not scale. Steps are harder to read and maintain in the long run.
*Thread Reply:* That's fair enough. 🙂 I'm not certain the best way to address that, however. Perhaps someone a bit more experienced will be able to chime in and provide some wisdom!
*Thread Reply:* I agree that "the claim should be rejected" or "the request should be rejected" is better from the standpoint of clarity. Ambiguous references are a frequent problem in human communication.
*Thread Reply:* I have, on occasion, used "they" to refer to the human mentioned earlier in the scenario when there's only one. It would be possible to do the same here, having one step definition store a reference to the thing that is rejectable and the Then step checking that it was rejected. That's not my usual preference, though.
*Thread Reply:* There is no ambiguity. That is my point. The scenario is 100% clear. And even if it were the request should be rejected, the request is different it these two different scenarios. The step should not be considered a self-contained thing with regards to whether it is ambiguous or not. The clarity of step should be evaluated in the context of the scenario. Otherwise, the steps will have long names without value to the reader.
*Thread Reply:* While minimizing words is tempting in casual conversation, it seems not so good for long-term documentation.
*Thread Reply:* @pano I understand the want to say something like, 'Then it should be rejected.' as I ran into wanting to say it when seeing if I could rewrite your scenario.
*Thread Reply:* @pano, if "the request should be rejected" is acceptable, then you don't need scoping to clarify. Using "it" is much harder to determine the reference. There's likely to be a scenario somewhere that could be read as a different "it." If you have to check the implementation of the step definition to understand that, then you've lost the communications part and might as well be testing in pure code.
*Thread Reply:* ``` When a claim for an expired policy is received Then that claim should be rejected
When an incomplete policy request is received Then that policy request should be rejected ```
*Thread Reply:* @gdinwiddie I believe that we confuse the what to the how. Nobody will check the implementation to understand what the step does. It will read the whole Scenario, top to bottom. And that will be enough.
*Thread Reply:* I agree with you @Gem that this would have been if we were to implement the Scenario in Cucumber, but I am trying to say here that other tools allow you to write less for the same value.
*Thread Reply:* I'm thinking about it in terms of how to write it in Cucumber and I'd imagine that @gdinwiddie is too. 🙂
*Thread Reply:* I agree with you. You are right. This is how I would have written it in Cucumber as well.
*Thread Reply:* I agree there are different ways things can be done. (Why do we have hundreds of programming languages for instance)
*Thread Reply:* Only that I was asked why Simply Business preferred Turnip (or Spinach) to Cucumber, and I tried to explain with an example why. 🙂
*Thread Reply:* > I agree there are different ways things can be done.
Definitely and absolutely!
*Thread Reply:* I really, really don't like how this turnip example reads fwiw.
Feature: Steps for a feature
@evil
Scenario: Evil
Given the monster has an alignment
Then that alignment should be "Evil"
@neutral
Scenario: Neutral
Given the monster has an alignment
Then that alignment should be "Neutral"
*Thread Reply:* I guess that we should not judge Turnip only by the examples they use in the README file in order to explain a feature of their tool. But, I agree with you, if we read this Feature in another context/env, it's awful indeed. 🙂
*Thread Reply:* That one I posted is actually from their examples directory. haha
*Thread Reply:* Yes. they want to explain, I guess how steps scoping can be done to an extreme case.
*Thread Reply:* They have a feature. If you don't want to use it, then don't. They support global/shared steps like Cucumber does.
*Thread Reply:* The issue with not judging Turnip by their examples is that these are the very things their creators (aka the ones who should be the best at it) are showing the world as 'how to use it'. If they're showing people how to use it in a way that isn't what we should use, that doesn't bode well.
*Thread Reply:* Cucumber's features can be considered very intentional in what is and isn't included.
*Thread Reply:* However, I am more convinced that we need scoped steps from the real cases in projects at Simply Business rather than by the Turnip example cases.
*Thread Reply:* So, in my own projects outside of Simply Business, I use Cucumber, even if I have to prefix my step names with useless context wording.
*Thread Reply:* Cucumber echo system it's much bigger and more useful to me.
*Thread Reply:* There is no general rule to decide when something is useless or not. It is the guy that reads the specifications of the requirements that decides that. And in this context I used that word (useless).
*Thread Reply:* Obviously, if that person believes that a step has more wording that it needs to have, it is useless for them.
*Thread Reply:* There's also more to it than just the feature file, too. In looking in step defs it can be easier to determine where/what to look for rather then 10+ "when I do the thing"s too
*Thread Reply:* Extra context/clarity can also be useful for new people or when you have a system that may fire multiple responses based on a single action.
*Thread Reply:* I've gotta close Slack for a little to focus on some other work I need to do though. I'll check back later, however. 🙂
*Thread Reply:* > Cucumber's features can be considered very intentional in what is and isn't included.
I'm still not convinced why Cucumber does not want to include the feature of scoped steps, but I still believe that it is, overall, great tool to do my job.
Going back to my other work too. Great discussion I enjoyed having with you.
Later.
*Thread Reply:* Hi guys. I'm a little late to the conversation but I wanted to chip in to a part that I regularly coach on - "how to write unambiguous steps"
It seems the crux of this debate is whether steps should say "it should be rejected" and relying on a human reading it to know the difference due to the context, or the having the steps be less ambiguous by having a step that says "the claim request should be rejected" and a different step that says "the policy request should be rejected".
I advocate for the use of the more verbose version as it maps better to the code - especially if you use Domain Driven Design or similar modeling techniques. At the conceptual level, you have a "PolicyRequest" that has a very different meaning to "ClaimRequest" to the end user and in the code, thus contributing to the ideal of a Ubiquitous Domain Language. Moreover, Cucumber helps you stick to this principle by giving you an error when you create duplicate steps. So let's say that you started with the "claim request" scenario and you implemented the step as "it should be rejected", and then a year later you added the "policy request" scenario and used the same "it should be rejected" step, you would get a warning from Cucumber which prompts you to go and be more specific in your steps, and this ultimately leads you to being more specific in the code also.
If the above warning based approach to reducing ambiguity doesn't matter to you, then using namespaces does indeed solve the problem of context. You can even use the same name spacing in your code too, so instead of a PolicyRequest you could have a policy.request. I have opinions on that too but I won't digress.
I do want to highlight that you can also solve the context problem with Cucumber with the introduction of a "context controller".
For humans or code to have context means they have to have priori knowledge. What you can do is set the context into the world as soon as you know what the context is, for example in the step "When a claim request is coming in", you would set the context to "claim" (just like a human does). Then, in the "it should be rejected" you would check for the context of the world and control the flow to matchup the correct code. This can easily be generalized.
I personally like to keep the step definitions ultra thin and treat them like the C in MVC (controllers). This allows me to have a clean separation between the test automation codebase and the test-runner framework. If you do this, then you can apply the generalized context controller concept I described above.
Those are my 2 pence. Hope there's some usefulness in them 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Hi, @samhatoum, thanks for joining the discussion. (Though it's now gotten large enough it might be better in a different channel.)
I also regularly coach and speak on scenario clarity (e.g., https://agiletestingdays.com/2017/session/patterns-for-improving-gherkin/). I agree with what you say, but think the issue is larger than "unambiguous steps." I see three principal legs to the BDD stool. The first is having a conversation, aided with examples, share multiple viewpoints and come to a common understanding. The second is expressing the examples from that understanding precisely enough to function as automated tests. And the third is having those examples (and the description of the rules) communicate across time or space to people who weren't in the conversation to document the system that was built. This third leg is especially hard for many people.
*Thread Reply:* @samhatoum You wrote:
> I advocate .... as it maps better to the code
That is what I do not agree with. It contradicts the purpose of using Gherkin in the first place. It makes you think about implementation details when these Scenarios should be written by non-developers, implementation-unaware/dont-care people.
Other than that, the technique that you describe to implement the context with Cucumber is definitely a very good one and this is what I do when I use Cucumber and decide to go with same step name but with different contexts.
Thank you very much for the details post above. Really informative.
*Thread Reply:* Hey @pano. Thank you for the response. I have to humbly disagree that mapping terminology in the specifications to the code contradicts Gherkin. I would like to point you to the wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior-driven_development) where you can see: > The tools serve to add automation to the ubiquitous language that is a central theme of BDD. The ubiquitous language part means the same language that customers/business people use, are the same language in the specifications (using gherkin or unit tests), are the same language in the code, are the same language in the UI. When this is not done, it leaves room for translation errors and therefore quality issues.
Thank you for this awesomely interesting conversation btw. It all started with "hello" 🙂
*Thread Reply:* @samhatoum Definitely agree with you in regards to Ubiquitous language. But, the language remains ubiquitous and clear even if you use the claim request in the first step and refer to it with it the next within the same scenario. Forcing the author of the second step to repeat the domain entity claim request only because the implementation of the step / or the tool does not support scoped tests, it is, clearly to me, a deficiency of the implementation/tool, that renders the steps verbose without reason/added value.
I've only worked a little with the JS version of Cucumber (I'm a Ruby guy), but I could believe that that is the case, given the nature of the JS ecosystem. There is a Gitter for Cucumber JS that seems fairly active (https://gitter.im/cucumber/cucumber-js). We may have a JS specific Slack channel for it as well but I don't know.
*Thread Reply:* This is unfortunately how the majority of my company uses it. >.<
*Thread Reply:* Yes, because that's what causes the least resistance. No need to change development practices, just keep coding as before. No need to change collaboration practices, just continue with business-developer-tester handoff as before. The only change is that testers start testing with a tool instead of doing it manually. This has nothing to do with BDD, except that they're using a BDD tool to do testing.
*Thread Reply:* I'm working on a project that's tried to shift things left and use bdd more, but I'm still coming in when code is at approx 70% and it's only for end to end/functional tests
*Thread Reply:* I'd guess still thinking of tests as an after-code action. One argument that I've heard is that 'we tried bdd for product xyz, but that requires you to have defined product requirements' which is something that really, really bothers me.
*Thread Reply:* I guess with that said, it's also seen as a barrier to 'getting work done'
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Aslak Hellesøy, any objections if I quote this at a client presentation? I’m in the process of introducing them to BDD. Obviously presenting it as your quote, not mine.
*Thread Reply:* @dimitris karavias please do. I've been shouting this from the rooftops for 10 years, but only a minority seems to follow that advice 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Hi, Eric. The impetus for BDD can come from anywhere, but the strategy & tactics should depend on the context of the situation. Typically, the SM should be a facilitator. What's the current requirements process for your team?
*Thread Reply:* Eric, I think you have 2 questions there, <#C6WFP09DF|podcast-guests> #1 about BDD and @gdinwiddie has already given a reply which is pretty much the same as I would and #2 "Can scrum master be a BA?" which I'll chip in on.
*Thread Reply:* Yes: there is no reason why a Business Analyst cannot be a Scrum Master. In fact I often think BAs can be excellent in that role for two reasons. First: they are more likely to already posses facilitation skills and observation skills than most others on a team and second, good business analysts are good at Analysis. In part becoming a SC is turning that analysis eye inside the team.
*Thread Reply:* Scrum Masters come in all shapes and sizes. What type are you going to be? How are you going to play the role?
*Thread Reply:* Unless this is a small team you need to hang up your BA hat and accept you are no longer a BA. You should not be writing requirements, specifications or stories. Sure you may help out but these are not your job.
*Thread Reply:* If you don't put some distance between your old role and your new one then you are not going do either very well
That would lead you here: https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/docker-selenium
Hi, Geeta. I don't have time to lead online training at the moment, but I do have an example project: https://github.com/gdinwiddie/EquineHoroscope
*Thread Reply:* Welcome around! Have a look at https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber-jvm/tree/master/examples/java-webbit-websockets-selenium
It is still fairly simple but it shows the powers of dependency injection and running stuff locally.
*Thread Reply:* Step definitions are the glue that binds the feature file to the system under test. This can be done indirectly through a webdriver and database connection or by spinning the application under test in memory and injecting its services into the step defs.
The latter is conceptually harder to understand but also more effective.
*Thread Reply:* I understand about glue but my question is -- for now all examples I was able to find show that definitions are sort of implementing features. But how to store them in the project, feature-based organization will be a mess... Is it possible to describe page behavior in a particular page-related definition class. So then my testers can write features from those methods.... at the end one feature will be calling different definitions(assuming cucumber instantiates it) and definitions calling pages (they are instantiated with commons-pool..). ?
*Thread Reply:* so at the end we have structure:
- features
- definitions (page-related not feature-related)
- pages is it make sense?
*Thread Reply:* @Paul S To describe the interaction with the pages, you might want to use the Page Object Pattern: https://martinfowler.com/bliki/PageObject.html
*Thread Reply:* thats exactly what i have, my initial question -- where definitions in this case?
*Thread Reply:* as of now i have: page -> service -> test
but with cucumber it will be: page -> definition -> feature
*Thread Reply:* but -- again, cucumber instantiates definitions, so how it will work then? page -> service -> definition-as-a-feature-implementation -> feature
*Thread Reply:* we have feature -> step defs (glue) -> steps -> supporting code (either page objects or mock steps)
*Thread Reply:* the step defs are fairly simple and only "glue" the gherkin to the programming language
*Thread Reply:* the steps are sorted by functionality, so for instance pagesteps and mocksteps
*Thread Reply:* so can other features access step defs (glue) in your case?
*Thread Reply:* steps that verify things on a page are in the page steps
*Thread Reply:* the interaction with the page is in the page object (but has no opinion on right or wrong, that's in the steps where I verify)
*Thread Reply:* yes, different feature files access the same step defs
*Thread Reply:* so you have 2 leyers of steps -- one coupled with features and what is another?
*Thread Reply:* src/test/java/cucumber/steps/ ---> contains step defs & steps & hooks src/resources/ ---> contains feature files
*Thread Reply:* you mean steps(glue) -- is a feature implementation and steps -- are the services for the pages?
*Thread Reply:* there is no coupling between features and steps/step definitions
*Thread Reply:* for us the stepdefs are the glue; they "glue" a step in a feature file, to a method in java
*Thread Reply:* the method in java we have in a step file (java class)
*Thread Reply:* and those steps might use methods in the page object (like check a field is present, click a button etc)
*Thread Reply:* nice! so lets say we have LoginPage and HomePage so the structure will be like:
- pages: LoginPage, HomePage
- steps/services: LoginPageSteps, HomePageSteps
- definitions: UserLogin or something like#2 but with Cucumber annotations... ?
- feature: userLogin.feature please clear what is #3 here ? 🙂
*Thread Reply:* where: 1 -- page with no behavior, state only 2 -- page behavior, service method (user action) 3 -- feature implementation 4 -- feature (test-scenario)
*Thread Reply:* Paul, first I'm going to change the order as I go from feature (intended behvaiour) to implementation
*Thread Reply:* so 1. feature file (yes, like test scenarios but related to a feature so a piece of functionality
*Thread Reply:* 2. step definitions "glue" - translate the steps (Given/When/Then) in the feature file to steps in the programming language
*Thread Reply:* 4. page object - describes the user interaction with the page
*Thread Reply:* how you named step definitions "glue" -- same as features?
*Thread Reply:* also at 3 or 4 mocksteps - set up expected state for the page without having to manipulate (other teams) databases
*Thread Reply:* we have feature and step-defin "glue"... so 1 feature file == 1 step definition file or 1 feature == many steps each related to its page?
*Thread Reply:* One .feature file will contain one or more Scenarios related to a feature (functionality in the application)
*Thread Reply:* Each scenario will contain multiple steps (Given a user with a password When the uses logs in Then user is logged in)
*Thread Reply:* The stepdefinition will define what to do for each step (insert a user and password in the database? mock a logon?)
*Thread Reply:* The stepdefinitions in my case "map" or "glue" to methods that either verify/assert something (is logged in: is the home page shown or whatever) or that perform an action (fill the name and password field and click a button)
*Thread Reply:* in this example the LoginPage page object would contain the name-field, the password-field and a login button
*Thread Reply:* as well as methods to fill in these fields and click the button
*Thread Reply:* my loginStep(name, password) {} would call the fillName(name) and fillPassword() and clickLoginButton() methods
*Thread Reply:* I am trying to understand page is page steps are page actions
step definitions -- again page actions but with cucumber annotations?
why not just a steps AND annotations at the same layer? can feature call a service class with page actions instead of "special" step-definitions (methods with verifications) ? can this definitions be a service (steps in your case)?
*Thread Reply:* so we have one page and then list of actions and then feature calling action from that list ?
*Thread Reply:* steps are test steps, which may contain (a combination of) actions on the page
*Thread Reply:* the step definitions can directly include the implementation of the test steps; we chose to add another abstraction layer here
*Thread Reply:* right but if i add annotation like @And and then expression -- it becomes a step-definition
*Thread Reply:* and you can either implement it there directly (steps AND annotations at the same layer)
*Thread Reply:* or only map to intended implementation of steps, which gives another layer of abstraction and for instance would make it easier to change the implementation of a step
*Thread Reply:* you would only have to change the implementation of the step in the step class, rather than everywhere you use it in a step definition
*Thread Reply:* yes, I call the methods verifySomething() and they contain JUnit assertions
*Thread Reply:* but I prefer to keep user interaction on a page separate from my tests 'judgement' on that test step
*Thread Reply:* so I verify/assert in the step implementation, and do the interaction with the page using simple method on the page object
*Thread Reply:* You are welcome. I actually do have to write a tutorial on it - with pictures (always helpful)
*Thread Reply:* inho (and/or read this somewhere) the page object should not have an opinion on what's right or wrong; it should just provide functionality (user interaction)
*Thread Reply:* do carefully think about what you want to test in the UI, as UI is slow and brittle
*Thread Reply:* i think there are couple disfferent Page Object implementations ... depending on the tool
*Thread Reply:* here's an interesting link: https://www.joecolantonio.com/2017/11/30/3-ways-ui-based-cucumber-bdd-can-go-bad/
*Thread Reply:* here is the full podcast: https://joecolantonio.com/testtalks/180-ten-years-cucumber-bdd-aslak-hellesoy/
*Thread Reply:* Yeah. Don't focus too much on the UI. Conceptually using the UI from your steps should look the same as using a rest api or database. You achieve this by wrapping the technical interaction in a service. Then in that service you use one or more page objects.
*Thread Reply:* Cucumber is single threaded but multiple cucumbers can safely be run in parallel. This is usually achieved by creating multille JUnit runners and letting maven surefire/failsafe execute them in parallel.
Aslong as you dont share mutalble state though static varibles, database instances, ect there should be no problems
*Thread Reply:* yeah, commented previously... im thinking how to implement definitions so they will be page-coupled not a feature-coupled
*Thread Reply:* in this case each feature can use the step needed .... but as Cucumber instantiates definitions used in feature, and we have lets say 100 features running on 10 slaves and all pages and definitions instantiated -- will feature be lost on which definitions to use ?
*Thread Reply:* I don't understand what you mean by page coupled. The step definitions can be shared by different feature files. You have to define where Cucumber can find your feature file(s) and stepdefinition file(s), either in a runner class or in your run configuration
*Thread Reply:* lets say we have 100 features grouped in 10 suites(runners in cucumber case) so 1 execution will be 10 suites -- but they all are thread-safe or not?
*Thread Reply:* I guess I am too new to Cucumber -- need to research a bit more...
*Thread Reply:* Yes. They are thread safe if your glue code is.
I am not familiar with selenium grid. Does it setup web drivers to connect to or do you execute the whole suite at that machine?
If the former you'd need to request a webdriver from the hub when your tests need one. If you want to test multiple browsers you'd run the same suite with different parameters.
*Thread Reply:* Ideally you only use either framework for the asserts. Runners can be generated for each scenario. See the cucumber-jvm-parallel-plugin elsewhere on github.
*Thread Reply:* as far as there are no actual runners in TestNG (like @RunAs..) i thought that Cucumber originally designed for JUnit
*Thread Reply:* I also tried tool called Serenity (sort of all-in-one DSL solution for BDD) and this only supports JUnit
*Thread Reply:* You can also use cucumber and serenity together. We do this for some of our projects, as serenity gives some functionality that cucumber doesn't (mainly reporting I think)
*Thread Reply:* @mlvandijk are you automating desktop with something? we are trying to automate SWT app, no luck so far ... (((
*Thread Reply:* (i.e. the screen would call methods or endpoints or something in the application, if your test can call those directly it will be much faster!)
*Thread Reply:* yeah, we do API but we have a task for UI ... + involve manual team, so I was thinking to use Cucumber....
*Thread Reply:* consider very carefully what you want to test in the UI
*Thread Reply:* especially if you already cover the logic at API level
*Thread Reply:* sounds awesome. One day I will find a bio-sciences related position... (my undergrad degree is in genetics)
*Thread Reply:* We are growing and I guess always have some positions here 🙂
Hi @here - I am using cucumber in Elixir - I used white_bread and cabbage packages - I am looking for implementing cucumber in Elixir - what would be a good starting point in order to achieve this?
I asked a couple questions on elixirforum 12 days ago but got no answer yet
https://elixirforum.com/t/behavior-driven-development-with-cucumber-in-elixir/11473
https://elixirforum.com/t/cucumber-scenario-execution-context-world-in-elixir/11474
any help / redirect would be much appreciated! Thanks
*Thread Reply:* I don’t know - just getting familiar with all the options 🙂
*Thread Reply:* solving same issue now I’m looking at cucumber js -> webdriwerio -> appium as well as running cucumber-electron
*Thread Reply:* We use webdriverio for web and mobile. For electron, you can check out spectron 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Have delved a bit into Appium and webdriverio, but was having difficulty getting it to select elements or read text from them. Any public repos with examples that you guys would recommend?
*Thread Reply:* webdriverio has several good example repos linked on their site - I know there’s one cuke/wdio written by the authors.
*Thread Reply:* If you haven’t yet, I’d look at some of the boilerplate here: http://webdriver.io/guide/getstarted/boilerplate.html
*Thread Reply:* and they also have a guide to selectors here: http://webdriver.io/guide/usage/selectors.html - may help you spot the issue you’re having
*Thread Reply:* yep - thanks a lot 🙂 - You are right - those selectors are tricky
*Thread Reply:* There’s a <#C6QJ6N695|help-cucumber-js> channel if you need it 🙂
Rest-Assured is a http client that provides some handy features for testing rest endpoints in java: https://github.com/rest-assured/rest-assured/wiki/Usage
*Thread Reply:* thanks! I've seen a copy of the Cucumber in Java book floating round the office. Time to dust off my java skills first though...
*Thread Reply:* And I try to find a way to get notification when hook starts, ends and fails
*Thread Reply:* Looks like at the moment there are no events for it
*Thread Reply:* With Cucumber-JVM v1.2.5 hook results are reported with Reporter.before and Reporter.after methods.
*Thread Reply:* I'm using cucumber-js. And I've been working with javascript for awhile. if i can help, let me know, although i no nothing of angular, per se.
*Thread Reply:* I switched from Java/Groovy to JS for automation - lmk if you have questions!
*Thread Reply:* Thnx @Cat - I'd prefer to stick to Java & Kotlin for the most part. But do need to learn JS / TypeScript / Angular at some point. At least a little...
*Thread Reply:* Coursera is good. I also like the Egghead courses and one of our juniors really likes Treehouse
*Thread Reply:* Personally, I prefer Udemy. I took a very expensive course series on R and machine learning from Coursera. Got halfway thru the cert process and encountered a bug in their course I couldn't fix. Their answer was to redo the course. I tried 3 times and bombed at the same place every time. Couldn't continue and the authors wouldn't reply to my emails. I won't use them again. But, YMMV.
*Thread Reply:* Personally, I like Pluralsight. I've done some Java, Spring and Kotlin stuff on there. Should see about JS/Angular
*Thread Reply:* hi, what are you integrating? and does it need to be cucumber? (mocha, jasmine, jest are ok for just writing quick and effient tests
*Thread Reply:* integration tests as in e2e tests. We already run a combination of karma, jasmine and istanbul for unit tests
*Thread Reply:* What are you using with Cucumber? Selenium? Watir? Capybara?
*Thread Reply:* Also, kinda cool that community members are showing so much interest in newcomers 🙂
*Thread Reply:* First time I’ve heard of Conway’s Law. Cool 🙂
Reminds me of Steven Sinofsky’s saying that companies “ship their org structure”
*Thread Reply:* You'll see it everywhere now! And all your problems can now be resolved by reorganizing. 😛
*Thread Reply:* That's not necessarily true. I used to work at a place where every PR was deployed to a front-end instance and then integration tests were run on that version of the front-end. It would take less than 2 minutes for heroku to deploy and for codeship to run the tests
*Thread Reply:* I'd like the feedback before I push. Basically run the tests locally along with the other unit tests. This also makes debugging easier too.
*Thread Reply:* Or just write them as unit/e2e tests and run them along with the other tests. Keeps the tests with the code they test and reduces the infrastructure needed to run them.
https://cucumberbdd.slack.com/archives/C5WD8SA21/p1525701631000888 - I wrote a LinkedIn post about this the other day. I saw 12 new job offerings in a day for the "First Automated Tester", and all 12 specified a language.
*Thread Reply:* This may be more suited to the #announcements channel, but I am of the firm, time-tested opinion that 99% of those with “recruiter” in their title are warm bodies operating off a script not of their making. I’ll reserve comment because I’m “preaching to the choir” here. 😉
https://cucumberbdd.slack.com/archives/C5WD8SA21/p1525722181000105 - Good point. Something we constantly strive for. We've got our feedback loop down to around 10-12mins. Which we believe is a reasonable one.
*Thread Reply:* Ooh, I like this re: responsibility. Also, the devs break the tests. 😂
*Thread Reply:* I think if I'm able to get us to adopt contract driven design/pacts for some things, I may be able to make more of an argument for this too.
It'd be nice
*Thread Reply:* We're currently also looking into contract testing. Probably try out spring cloud contract testing soon (jvm only unfortunately). Seems like a great idea, but am a bit worried about defining / maintaining the contracts...
*Thread Reply:* yeah, i hear you. one of the challenges i've run into a lot with the approach of "what if they're right? let's listen for that..." is that it can often be REALLY hard to set aside all of the experience we have with the person that already justifies (at least from our own perspective) why it won't work, or why there's no point, or however that resistance may manifest in any given interaction. sometimes it takes a LOT more humility than I'm in the mood to exercise lol. but when i realise that, it suddenly makes me aware that I'm already judging what they have to say before they even say it, which is definitely a normal thing that everyone does, and which is also totally unfair to the other person. sometimes that realisation in the moment is enough to give me access to the necessary humility... and then other times i really just want to be right and not listen to other people lol. in the end, my experience has been that the path of humility and listening always leads to a better outcome, but it's also often really hard, sometimes harder than just dealing with the abrasiveness/annoyingness/whatever else there is to deal with the other person lol
*Thread Reply:* I feel ya there and really like the way you were able to describe things. Being mindful of what's going on and listening first are hugely beneficial tools to have.
*Thread Reply:* Unfortunately, I can't do things like he wants in at least one way as it'd be a long script instead of focused scenarios.
*Thread Reply:* Thank you so much for your input! It's a good reminder that I need to be more mindful and realize everyone comes from different places and sees things through their own personal filters.
*Thread Reply:* you're welcome! i also need a good reminder about it more often than I'd like to admit!
Hulo! Was having this convo w/ @matt-SmartBear on Twitter; https://twitter.com/natbobc/status/993629734000123910
Which channel can/should I continue it? Wanted to know the high-level status of each of the parsers in https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber/tree/master/gherkin.
Twitter
We mirror subdirectories in the monorepo in read-only repos, to make them easier to consume. For example: https://github.com/cucumber/gherkin-go
this isn't a full solution, but there's a sublime text plugin that has formatting for tables https://github.com/waynemoore/sublime-gherkin-formatter
That’s a read-only mirror of https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber/tree/master/gherkin/go, which is where dev happens
Oh https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber - yes great!
Apology.
Hey Wizards i hope you all are doing amazing!
This weekend I’ve signed up for Paris to London bicycle charity ride to help raise money to build schools and libraries in 3rd world countries to be able to get children in education and improve their live.
If you want to contribute, and help children to get a better life, please donate here: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/waleed-deeba
opps sorry..
*Thread Reply:* Welcome! 🙂 We’ve got a <#C6QJ6N695|help-cucumber-js> channel if you ever need it.
Hello all, I am Benjamin from trivago and I have been working with cucumber-jvm for two years now. Here are my two open source projects for Cucumber: https://github.com/trivago/cluecumber-report-plugin https://github.com/trivago/cucable-plugin
<a href="https://github.com/trivago/cucable-plugin">trivago/cucable-plugin</a>
*Thread Reply:* Heya! Cool stuff. I hope v4 will make the Cucable obsolete! It has parall execution build in.
*Thread Reply:* Perfect, then I can focus on the reporting part and some other Cucumber complimenting projects 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Yes Allure is compatible with Cucumber-JVM - https://docs.qameta.io/allure/latest/#_cucumber_jvm
*Thread Reply:* There's also a Jenkins plugin for Allure which generates and serves the reports from the build details.
*Thread Reply:* cough cough Cluecumber 🤓 https://github.com/trivago/cluecumber-report-plugin
<a href="https://github.com/trivago/cluecumber-report-plugin">trivago/cluecumber-report-plugin</a>
surefire-report or https://github.com/email2vimalraj/CucumberExtentReporter or https://github.com/trivago/cluecumber-report-plugin
<a href="https://github.com/email2vimalraj/CucumberExtentReporter">email2vimalraj/CucumberExtentReporter</a>
<a href="https://github.com/trivago/cluecumber-report-plugin">trivago/cluecumber-report-plugin</a>
*Thread Reply:* For python you can install bdd package using 'pip install behave'
*Thread Reply:* Selenium is an external library outside of BDD/behave. You can install it using 'pip install selenium'
*Thread Reply:* Check this out - I had written this starter codebase which may be helpful
*Thread Reply:* https://github.com/Rhoynar/python-selenium-bdd
<a href="https://github.com/Rhoynar/python-selenium-bdd">Rhoynar/python-selenium-bdd</a>
Here is an issue which is good for new contributors. Happy to guide people through how they can contribute. https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber/pull/461
<a href="https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber">cucumber/cucumber</a>
*Thread Reply:* sorry to spam you mate, but this may also be of interest: https://github.com/MechanicalRock/beady-eye
<a href="https://github.com/MechanicalRock/beady-eye">MechanicalRock/beady-eye</a>
*Thread Reply:* no worries, but sounds like you have it covered with inspec
*Thread Reply:* I'm working on a couple of hubots in slack as well... haven't been able to find a testing framework for those
*Thread Reply:* You may want to try the help channel specific to the language you’re working in - e.g., <#C6QJ6N695|help-cucumber-js> <#C5YHPPJMP|help-cucumber-jvm> etc
*Thread Reply:* Andy we have some massive fans here at Cucumber HQ. Let us know if you ever need some expert help, you’ll get a very good deal!
*Thread Reply:* Great question, unfortunately I am not a person who'd be able to answer that... NASA is a huge place with lots of different locations/projects. We're just one small team 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Am I allowed to tweet that I’m excited to hear a team at NASA use Cucumber?
*Thread Reply:* And if I explain it to you now, would you mind sending a PR against the documentation project?
*Thread Reply:* Yeah sure. I can send a PR against the documentation project. will need the link to the project. As for the issue, Just posted my issue in the help channel.
*Thread Reply:* https://github.com/cucumber/docs.cucumber.io
<a href="https://github.com/cucumber/docs.cucumber.io">cucumber/docs.cucumber.io</a>
*Thread Reply:* Welcome around.
Out of curiosity. What does your framework do and how is it build ontop of Cucumber?
*Thread Reply:* ^Bump. Am wondering the same thing as I am building a framework for mine.
*Thread Reply:* Welcome around! Please dont spam your questions every where.
*Thread Reply:* Can you give some guidance about where to ask questions about what maybe @mpkorstanje?
*Thread Reply:* @mpkorstanje Yeah that would be really helpful. As a new joinee I didn't knew what was the right place to ask so I just posted it in the groups which I thought could help me.
*Thread Reply:* Cucumber is not a test type. It's a tool (and not even a test tool at that)
*Thread Reply:* It is a testing tool, but not in the traditional sense. “Cucumber is not a tool for testing software. It is a tool for testing people's understanding of how software (yet to be written) should behave. Most bugs and delays caused by rework arise from misunderstandings, and this is the problem Cucumber aims to solve. Cucumber is a tool that facilitates collaboration and software design (especially domain-driven design)... Cucumber is there to make sure you write the right code.” - Creator of Cucumber on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10194242
*Thread Reply:* > It is a testing tool
Or (rather) as it is put here, its the "most misundersood collaboration tool": https://cucumber.io/blog/2014/03/03/the-worlds-most-misunderstood-collaboration-tool
*Thread Reply:* The blog post is a good read (a year older than the hacker news post but also made by the creator of Cucumber). The important point that is common from both is that Cucumber isn't a TDD tool.
*Thread Reply:* Thank you all for your replies. This is great!! this is going to help me a lot on my evaluation/assessment of our current situation!
*Thread Reply:* Just a curiosity. Who writes your features files? In our case, Devs are doing it since we do not have a dedicated QA for each team and POs were never train to understand or how to write Gherkin.
*Thread Reply:* Also: This may help. It's a thing you can do before writing a feature:
https://cucumber.io/blog/2015/12/08/example-mapping-introduction
*Thread Reply:* That's what I think we will endup doing until we train the POs to understand the value of them
*Thread Reply:* So after reading some of your comments and blogs. Here is my conclusion: • Cucumber should not replace our Integration test and end to end test. • Cucumber should be only for specification mapping. Mostly be implemented at the beginning of the development cycle. • Gherkin should only be written if we have someone reading them • Integration test could be implement using junit •
*Thread Reply:* Sounds about right. One caveat, integration tests with an aggressive clean code policy.
*Thread Reply:* The day sonar can read and understand code is the day sonar will help with writing actual clean code. Otherwise it's about as usefull as a spell checker for checking grammar. 😄
*Thread Reply:* @mpkorstanje what about running cucumber on build time? Is it something that should run on each build or only on th development phase?
*Thread Reply:* Clean code is a book, about writing, well, clean code. Code that does what is says it does. Code reviews can help enforce it. But you have to have read the same book or you'll have pointless discussions.
https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Code-Handbook-Software-Craftsmanship/dp/0132350882
*Thread Reply:* Don't your run tests every time you build your project?
*Thread Reply:* Not all projects today. some of them because it take like 40 mins to be run.
*Thread Reply:* So it is a good thing to run cucumber on develop branch builds and master branches?
*Thread Reply:* Owh btw. If you've tried to engage stakeholders with Cucumber and it didnt' work out. Make sure your gherkin is done right
*Thread Reply:* And you should always run all your tests before merging a feature branch into master.
*Thread Reply:* Unless you're doing fancy things that require whole environments to be setup.
*Thread Reply:* Then you want to have every thing run before making a new release.
*Thread Reply:* I define a feature as a functionality of the project. On the high-level abstraction of the entire project API is just only one feature among other features. I found not easy to read someone’s code if to keep all test scenarios for different endpoints in one feature file because from the test scenario’s names it’s not clear what HTTP method or endpoint is being tested. That’s why I come up with an idea that can consider endpoints as features because I perform some behavior with HTTP methods.
*Thread Reply:* Don't try to program in Gherkin and you'll be fine! 😄
*Thread Reply:* Cool! It's not difficult, the code a bit convoluted though. The TestCase and Runtime class might be a good start.
*Thread Reply:* And of course feel free to ask questions in the appropriate channel such as <#C5YHPPJMP|help-cucumber-jvm>
*Thread Reply:* And as you figure stuff out, additions to docs.cucumber.io very much wanted! :)
*Thread Reply:* Cucumber is a tool to specify tests in BDD style - nothing more and nothing less. So yes it can be applied to pretty much all use cases. It does not include any UI testing capabilities - those have to be handled by your test framework.
*Thread Reply:* ^^ yup. Additionally, it’s always a good idea to do a search for keywords you’re looking for. You won’t always find the answer you need, but it can usually point you in a good direction. :) For example: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cucumber+electron+js&t=h_&ia=software
*Thread Reply:* Welcome from another Jayson! (I'm not currently in CA, but was born and raised there. 😛 )
*Thread Reply:* My name may as well be JSON, with how many times I answer to it haha
*Thread Reply:* @Benjamin Bischoff I wanted to change my online usernames to jaysonjson but there's someone squatting on the Twitter user so I can't change it across the board. :P
*Thread Reply:* Also, lol @Jason O I get my attention pulled pretty frequently because of it too! :P
*Thread Reply:* i'll just leave this here: https://twitter.com/computerfact/status/1121961728747687936
Twitter
*Thread Reply:* @Lloyd Chang I’m interested in remote work but what is ‘partial remote’? I can’t ‘partially’ move to San Francisco.
*Thread Reply:* Hi @enkessler, partial remote means the job openings have remote work option available for a percentage of time. Thank you for your time and take care Eric 🙂
*Thread Reply:* So far pretty decent. Just working on getting it going with our Jenkins CI properly.
*Thread Reply:* Let us know how you like cukexp @delso. Is it intuitive? How can we improve the docs?
*Thread Reply:* @Aslak Hellesøy it's much more intuitive than regex until you need your own transformer types. The docs on those are pretty good though.
It might be beneficial to describe the different built in output formatters and provide examples of their output.
I'm curious if there is more information on how to use the parallel option?
I am the lead of site_prism. Which is a ruby gem, and the largest in the ecosystem. Just trying to find something I can use that will give me better js but also not be too complicated. https://github.com/site-prism/site_prism
As I say, you can use JS, you can mix and match as you wish. See here for an example:
https://github.com/canvaspixels/courgette/blob/master/uiTests/pages/twitter-login.js
*Thread Reply:* forgot my intro before sending a message on <#C7676D8GN|help-cucumber-ruby> 🤦♂️
*Thread Reply:* Is the commiters channel really one to recommend for someone learning? Also I replied to the same message on #announcements but I don't know if it was correct or not.
*Thread Reply:* The help channel is best for learning. The committers one if you feel like contributing.
*Thread Reply:* Thats what I thought. I just put here for clarification.
*Thread Reply:* I guess @Patrick Callahan probably wants #help for the moment.
*Thread Reply:* It does help to know what's going on with commits. Will probably read commiters for a while and ask questions on help.
*Thread Reply:* We used to support Gosu out of the box, but had to take it out because nobody stepped up to maintain it.
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Ermela Sarenas! Keep us posted on how your BDD journey progresses and let me know if you would like pointed at any online resources to help you along the way 😀
*Thread Reply:* Hello! Don't use Cucumber to just automate your tests. That's better done by using your regular language + good libraries to interact with systems.
If you want to make your whole dev team less miserable you are in the right place though.
*Thread Reply:* There is a Webinar today/tomorrow depending on your time zone.
https://cucumberbdd.slack.com/archives/C6AULLKGF/p1583844863096400
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Julien Vely Welcome to the Cucumber community! A large part of the Cucumber team are also in France 🇫🇷 👋
*Thread Reply:* 👋 Hi @Andreas Ebbert-Karroum welcome to the Cucumber community
*Thread Reply:* Hi! @Chang welcome to the community! There are lots of friendly helpful people here to help you on your BDD journey 👍
*Thread Reply:* @Benjamin Bischoff Ich bin sehr neu mit BDD und Cucumber in allgemein. Welche Buch würdest du für mich Empfehlen zu lesen? Ist diese Buch von 2015 ist uptodate? I am very new to BDD and Cucumber in general. Which book would you recommend for me to read? Is this book from 2015 is uptodate? "The Cucumber for Java Book: Behaviour-Driven Development for Testers and Developers (Englisch) Taschenbuch – 3. März 2015"
*Thread Reply:* I would probably point you to https://school.cucumber.io/courses/bdd-with-cucumber-java 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Yes. I started the course and finished 51%. Waiting for further chapters to unlock. Thanks for the trainers.
*Thread Reply:* Hello @mlvandijk fancy a zoom next week or sometime soon? We didn't really get a chance to catch up at CukenFest 🙁
*Thread Reply:* You have to put your state in to an object that is shared between your step definition class and your hook definition class.
*Thread Reply:* But consider if you actually need that info. If you use scenario.attach Cucumber will report the image in the right place.
*Thread Reply:* If you use a plugin, you can also use Cucumber's events. They contain way more information than hooks.
*Thread Reply:* Hi, this channel is for personal introductions. Please ask your question in the respective channel (e.g. help-cucumber-jvm)
*Thread Reply:* To be honest I'd recommend just trying things out. Theres good material on the cucumber website/github. You will learn best by trying to implement a few things.
*Thread Reply:* but how to start with if i dont know anything about it
*Thread Reply:* https://behave.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tutorial.html
*Thread Reply:* I'd start there. and if you have things that aren't working out for you try #help
*Thread Reply:* Note I haven't tried with python. Only with Cucumber-jvm. There are good articles about patterns and antipatterns of cucumber that you can find.
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Erik Jacobs welcome! I see you and @mpkorstanje have had a long discussion over in the #help channel 👍 I hope the feedback has been useful!
*Thread Reply:* muy bien, ¿que tal tu experiencia en este espacio de trabajo?
*Thread Reply:* ¿y que tal te ha servido para despejar dudas referente a Cucumber?
*Thread Reply:* I started using Cucumber when I was working on a system that changed automatically changes contracts.
The existing code was poorly written. I had to check with legal experts and product people how these contracts should be changed.
So I used Cucumber to write scenarios based on what the code was doing. Then I checked with the experts if this was indeed supposed to work this way. Some times the system was doing it right, some times it wasn't.
Then knowing how things should work I could use the tests to refactor the code and make it better.
I liked that so much that I'm one of Cucumbers developers now.
*Thread Reply:* que buena historia la que me cuentas referente a tu experiencia en Cucumber. Pensé que la metodología BDD era útil implementarla desde la concepción del proyecto y no al finalizar un proyecto y empezar a depurarlo. Me siento con más confianza en participar en este grupo de trabajo, ya que veo que hay desarrolladores de Cucumber aquí. ¡Muchas gracias! 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Actualmente, en la empresa en la que trabajo no hemos implementado BDD ni Cucumber, y me encuentro en la tarea de investigación y valoración de esta metodología/herramienta. Mi interés aquí (en el grupo de trabajo), es buscar más confianza en cuanto a los foros de apoyo y soporte/documentación.
*Thread Reply:* You're welcome!
Cucumber is a tool to facilitate communication. Getting that right is the hardest part. :D
You can read some stuff about that here:
You can find docs here. They need work, but the 10-minute tutorial should help you get started technically.
https://cucumber.io/docs/guides/10-minute-tutorial/
For java you can also find additional documentation for each the modules in the repo itself.
https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber-jvm
*Thread Reply:* “Cucumber is a tool to facilitate communication.” ❤️
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Dan Mackay Welcome! I hope you have enjoyed the first few chapters of Cucumber School! I hope to get chapter 4 released in the next week or so. We're just finalising it now 🤞
*Thread Reply:* I'm looking forward to spending more time to learn about using cucumber! I'm planning to use my learning time at work to work through the first few chapters so we might end up aligning out timings 😄
*Thread Reply:* Hey I finished running through the first three chapters and I really enjoyed out 💯
Can't wait for the next chapter! Thanks for the course!
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Dan Mackay Well, it was a bit longer than "next week or so" but we've released chapter 4 this week 😀 Thanks for your feedback, we're happy to read you have enjoyed it so far 👍
*Thread Reply:* Excellent, I'll probably run through the new chapter on Monday morning 😄 Thanks for the update really appreciate it!
👋 Everyone. Thanks for having me. Anyone using the Cypress-Cucumber-Preprocessor package?
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Joe McFadden! If you ask this over in the <#C6QJ6N695|help-cucumber-js> channel someone there might be able to point you to something helpful. I'm pleased to read you've found the BDD with Cucumber School lessons useful and thank you for the feedback 😀
*Thread Reply:* Hi Raj, Good to have you. Is there any resources to learn Fitnesses BDD
*Thread Reply:* It was few years ago , their website http://fitnesse.org was useful and we had developers who supported us as they had to learn it to and write the glue in their methods
*Thread Reply:* In my first job they gave me "The Cucumber for Java Book" and had me read a couple of chapters. I think it was 4 and 5. Even though we were using Javascript (cucumber / gherkin syntax won't change 🙂 )
*Thread Reply:* @Mona Ghassemi Thank you very much... I will look into it
*Thread Reply:* Of course. I haven't checked them out but there are of course online resources as well. The Cucumber School (free) is one of them.
Hi everyone, my name is David. I’m a golang backend developer in Paris and I use godog to drive functional tests
*Thread Reply:* v4 won't receive any bug fixes, that's currently the case already.
*Thread Reply:* Ofc. If you don't experience any then it shouldn't be a big deal.
*Thread Reply:* Ah perfect! Hopefully i can start migrating everything to v6 before bugs start to happen 🐛
*Thread Reply:* API testing with Selenium seems like some overhead. Is it possible to give some more details about this?
*Thread Reply:* I’m using cucumber with puppeteer (which is similar end-to-end stuff) if that sounds relevant, Benjamin. Do you have specific questions?
*Thread Reply:* I was just wondering why you would want to do API testing using Selenium when there faster methods around that don't rely on UI interactions.
*Thread Reply:* Ohhh, sorry. I didn’t read closely enough. That’s a good question. We’re doing UI testing. If he ever comes back, I’ll be interested to hear the answer.
*Thread Reply:* Thanks for reaching out. I may have found a bug in cucumber-android. I've created an issue here: https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber-android/issues/56 Will also reach out in the android channel.
*Thread Reply:* I probably should just leave the room not going to do an intro anyway. 🤣
*Thread Reply:* Thanks for the heads up about Gitter (which we no longer use). We should remove all the links to Gitter: https://github.com/search?q=org%3Acucumber+gitter&type=code
Any volunteers?
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Lewis Cowles Welcome! I see you've found the help-godog channel 👍 I'm sure someone will be along to offer some advice soon.
*Thread Reply:* Thanks. I think I might have cracked it when I laid out what I needed. I'm checking now
*Thread Reply:* Hi Wayne! Welcome to the Slack. I'm not sure where you should go for help, so the general #help channel might be your best bet.
*Thread Reply:* I also bake sourdough on a weekly schedule. 😄 Ice cream, occasionally, but I can only do no-churn recipes as I don't have an ice-cream maker.
*Thread Reply:* Thanks, it is my 6th, its with rye and caraway seeds, my best so far. my schedule is fluid, do you use a dutch oven? today i’m going to be making ice cream
*Thread Reply:* No way! My 6th definitely didn't look like that. My first attempt was a few years ago and my loaves ended up being way too dense and crumbly. Eventually I had to throw that starter out as it went bad after I left it out after a sudden move. I started again a few months after it got popular with the pandemic and it took a while for it to become really alive but I'm finally making really nice loaves with no need to add additional yeast (some recipes do that and it can help if the starter is weak), but I like to try different recipes and found there are a lot of interesting ones on the King Arthur Flour website. I don't have that many supplies; I make do with what I have. I need to get a new dutch oven as I also lost that when I moved 😄. Recently I made some English muffins. My kiddo is just gobbling up. I tried a recipe with rye, caraway, anise and cardamom. It was nice!
*Thread Reply:* I tried it a few years ago wit no success at all. but i figured i’d try again. i don’t have a dutch oven but it still comes out pretty well, the first 3 were edible, but goofy looking, then at attempt 4 i had resolved some of the issues. i should try anise and cardamom, they are in my pantry.
*Thread Reply:* This was the recipe I used. I made it in a loaf pan. Are you using a banneton? It looks like it from the design on your loaf. https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/marilyns-whole-wheat-and-rye-sourdough-bread-recipe
*Thread Reply:* Thanks for the link, and yes i have round and oval bannetons. I also use nigella with the caraway.
*Thread Reply:* Nigella sounds lovely! I'll have to invest in some proper equipment. Really looks professional. What kind of ice cream are you making?
*Thread Reply:* #watercooler is available for any cooking-related fun things you wish to share!
*Thread Reply:* Reading and travelling are two of my favourite things too! I'm doing a lot more reading than travelling these days though.
*Thread Reply:* Our team isn't doing full-on BDD, but I do find that writing gherkin scenarios as soon as I have the specs does help me get a better idea of, and communicate, the requirements, as needed for testing, before the feature is ready.
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Stephen Adamson Cucumber School JS chapters 3, 4 & 5 are all almost ready to release. If you keep an eye on the #school channel the releases will be announced there. Hope that helps 😀
*Thread Reply:* Yes definitely. I'm not technical so is there a resource I can currently reference to help me in the mean time to get more familiar and how to write gherkins. I want to be able to demonstrate competence before I put it in front of my team. Thanks!
*Thread Reply:* @David Goss @jbpros can either of you suggest any resources to help Stephen get on his way please?
*Thread Reply:* Hi Stephen -- After you got yourself familiarised with the gherkin syntax, I recommend the Cucumber anti-patterns blogpost which goes deeper into "recommended practices" we identified around writing "good" gherkin docs.
*Thread Reply:* Thank you @tracey its great to have and be in a Cucumber Community. 👍
*Thread Reply:* All mushrooms are fungi, but not all fungi are mushrooms. So your logic, I am a fungi, therefore I am a mushroom, is flawed.
*Thread Reply:* Good point. I could be a mushroom...but I'm definitely a fun guy. 😛
hi, I have recently written a piece about using Cucumber with Playwright. Playwright is an interesting alternative to Selenium, and IMHO a superior one. https://tally-b.medium.com/e2e-testing-with-cucumber-and-playwright-9584d3ef3360. Comments are welcome (also claps and shares).
*Thread Reply:* Traditionally in tests (Irrespective of cucumber or not), you would make sure you adhere to test one thing mantra.
So your example is testing 2 different things so should be 2 different scenarios.
Also minor typo anonymous
I've recently created a desktop application for editing Gherkin files. It has excel-style editing for example and step tables. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/gherkin-editor/9pnskl00xc40?activetab=pivot:overviewtab
*Thread Reply:* Welcome @Huck Carignan - a few people have. It's currently getting 40k downloads/week: https://www.npmjs.com/package/@cucumber/cucumber
*Thread Reply:* We also have <#C6QJ6N695|help-cucumber-js> for cucumber-js specific discussions
Hi, I would like to know is there any way to automate terminal based GUI application written using https://github.com/rivo/tview ?
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Ani, this channel is a place for new members to introduce themselves. The #help channel is better for questions.
*Thread Reply:* It helps if you mention what language you are using cucumber in..
*Thread Reply:* Welcome @Kaweesi Joseph! The contributors discuss implementation details in the various #committers-** channels. If you have a technical question about usage, please use #help-**
*Thread Reply:* This should be a tag expression like
@TC122 or @TC133 or...
Here you can find more information:
https://cucumber.io/docs/cucumber/api/
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Jonas Anker Rasmussen! 👋:skintone2: If you need any help with your project let us know! :cucumberbdd:
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Wei Huang! Did you find our <#CTNL1JCVA|help-godog> channel? Hopefully you find helpful information there!
*Thread Reply:* Hi, yes, I found that, but I got help from #help channel. thanks
*Thread Reply:* @michael howard How are you getting on? I hope you've been able to find the learning resources you need?
*Thread Reply:* 👍
You'll find specific help for that platform in <#C5YHPPJMP|help-cucumber-jvm>
Good luck!
*Thread Reply:* Using : Cucumber, Java, Junit, Maven, selenium platform
*Thread Reply:* > Finally found an organization that is receptive. Fantastic! How did you manage to do that? I'm in the same situation...
*Thread Reply:* I wouldn't say I did anything other than make the case and demonstrate that the barrier to entry is very low. It's like getting your kids to eat their vegetables. Appealing to their rational side about how healthy they are is a non-starter.
*Thread Reply:* I borrowed some of the examples from the Cucumber School videos. Then, I made the case using the one thing the business cares about most - money. Money talks, rationale walks.
*Thread Reply:* OK, I can see where I have gone wrong in the past. I tried rationale....
*Thread Reply:* Welcome. Just to be clear, Cucumber focuses on behavior, not tests. It may seem trivial, but it is an important distinction.
*Thread Reply:* I completely agree.
What I am really pursuing is a way to structure the business requirements so they can be (late) bound to the implementations.
I think the features vs steps distinction handles that quite well.
I will learn as much as I can.
There's another dimension which doesn't seem to be address, and that is the "Decision".
I think it would be a different type within the Scenario class which would include the possibility of recording:
• What alternatives were considered
• Why they were not chosen
• What conditions might result in a different choice.
I acknowledge that Cucumber is about what "is" and not about what " could be" so I'm curious if there is another project that deals with decisions in a similar way.
*Thread Reply:* "What could be...", aka future-proofing, runs counter to software development principles. It's ok to plan, but it's a waste of time to attempt to build software for scenarios that may not ever happen.
*Thread Reply:* It seems you're asking code to make business decisions. That's the proverbial tail wagging the dog. Software implements business decisions, not vice versa.
*Thread Reply:* OK, this is very helpful. Thank you. I don't have to worry about ADRs,
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Gernot Starke, you're the first person I run into who knows about arc42!! I'm working with a dew peopl to assemble a kit for making portfolio sites and considered C4 because I thought arc42 would be too complex.... https://vitrina.readthedocs.io/en/latest/about.html#the-static-html-branch
*Thread Reply:* I did over in #help 🙂 No responses there yet though 😞 I just posted this as it was recommended by the help intro..
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Ankita Gupta welcome! Writing tests for data pipelines and spark is a problem that I may need to solve in my new org that I have joined a few days ago. It will be great to get your input into this.
*Thread Reply:* Sometimes I need help. That phrase would probably serve well on my tombstone. 🪦😆
*Thread Reply:* Velkommen Øyvind. Cucumber was originally made in Norway :-)
*Thread Reply:* TIL: Lockheed Martin Simulator sounds super cool.
True confession, most of what I know about Norway I learned in Norsemen.
*Thread Reply:* @Dana Scheider (they/he) aren't you also a trained singer?
*Thread Reply:* I'm currently do the transition from "musical bariton" to "operatic tenor" if that makes sense. What's yours?
*Thread Reply:* Hey! @David Ambler Welcome 😀 I see you've already found the <#C6QJ6N695|help-cucumber-js> channel 👍:skintone2:
*Thread Reply:* Hi! Yep, looking forward to hopefully gaining / sharing some knowledge 🙂
*Thread Reply:* Hi @David Ambler: you might enjoy sitting in on https://www.twitch.tv/cucumberbdd , the group there has been working on cucumber-js related issues. I saw in last week and it was fun.
*Thread Reply:* ":dancing_pickle:" <--- that is a cool emoji 😄 Hey Jo!
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Swetha Pakalapati 😀 Welcome 😀 Have you visited Cucumber School? It might help you along the way a little...
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Marcela dos Santos :dancing_pickle: We have Cucumber School which might help you?
*Thread Reply:* For sure. All my background is more in Robotics than software Engineering. Cucumber Scholl would be amazing for me 🙂
*Thread Reply:* 👋:skintone2:
We have seen Cucumber used for embedded systems. What code do the robots run?
*Thread Reply:* Hi @matt-SmartBear, Have you or Have not seen? Because I have studied testing for robotic around 1 year, and I did not find some paper about it. Maybe is a practice in industry.
*Thread Reply:* I'm not sure about papers, the industry is not very good at sitting down and writing those. I remember seeing this presentation, for example: https://www.slideshare.net/ItamarHassin/embedded-software-development-using-bdd
*Thread Reply:* IIRC they didn't use Cucumber's published wire protocol because parsing JSON on their device was not possible.
*Thread Reply:* But if you can run Python you probably have that option.
*Thread Reply:* Cucumber-CPP works by invoking C++ steps on a remote TCP/IP socket.
*Thread Reply:* thanks a lot @matt-SmartBear, it will be very helpful for me
*Thread Reply:* no worries, feel free to ping me if you want more pointers. I love seeing Cucumber used to automate interesting stuff
*Thread Reply:* I've seen it used to automate Smart TVs, even an XBox
*Thread Reply:* Hey @beck! Welcome 👋:skintone2: TIL tetrachromat! How amazing!
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Kinn Coelho Juliao I was just checking out Achieve3000 👀 So cool, and many great testimonials too 😀
*Thread Reply:* @Rob Bruno plays an important role to make sure those testimonials stay positive!
*Thread Reply:* @DD Dobrev Welcome! Ping me if you need help finding anything here 😀
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Iain MacLeod Welcome! I'm in Edinburgh too :flagscotland: Happy Monday :dancingpickle:
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Jo Laing 👋 Good to meet you - have a great Monday too!
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Prashant Singh Welcome :dancing_pickle:I was going to point you at Cucumber School where we have a BDD with Cucumber course in Ruby which might help you along the way, but I think you have already signed up 😀
*Thread Reply:* Thank you . Yes right already going through it 🙂 . So far I have found Cucumber very intuitive and useful .
*Thread Reply:* Cucumber so far for me is like Given some environment , When some action happen, Then expect this outcome !!!
*Thread Reply:* Great! Really pleased to hear you are enjoying what you are learning so far :dancing_pickle: Do shout if you need any pointers 😀
*Thread Reply:* We run beginnners mob sessions on Twitch (usually on a Friday) which you might want to join or watch? Here is a link to one of the previous sessions to give you an idea.
*Thread Reply:* Hey @Aman gupta 😀 We have a short course on BDD at Cucumber School which you might find helpful for you and your co-workers. There are more in-depth BDD courses there too. I hope that helps you!
*Thread Reply:* Bonjour! You should meet @Jeroen Kouwer who has recently taken over as maintainer of cucumber-cpp
*Thread Reply:* Hi Ambroise, good to hear that someone is using cucumber-cpp 😉 . Don't hesitate to contact me if you have questions / suggestions about cucumber-cpp.
*Thread Reply:* Hey @scott cote welcome and nice to have you here! I’ll reply fully to you in the morning 👍
*Thread Reply:* There is a <#C5YHPPJMP|help-cucumber-jvm> channel - you can ask questions in there 👍:skintone2:
*Thread Reply:* Holland right? Go to sleep 😉 . type with you in as time permits
*Thread Reply:* Edinburgh! :flagscotland: I think I'm probably in that "old" category too and have been with the Cucumber team for a little over four years. Thanks for sharing your history with Cucumber Ruby and Java, and for the wee teaser about the 'glue code" you have written that you are hoping to open source. I hope you get the corporate blessing to do so - keep us posted there 🤞:skintone_2: The channel I pointed you to last night is probably the right place for you to start with your questions or there is a general #help channel if your question is not language specific. Feel free to ping me if there is anything else I can help with 😀
*Thread Reply:* HI Arianna! Come find us in <#C028E2TBDJQ|new-contributors>!
*Thread Reply:* Hey Matt! I joined that channel when I first signed up too since the godog read me suggested it 😄
*Thread Reply:* Great! Did you see the #inclusivity channel too? That's where we've been discussing generally what we can do to make the project more welcoming for new contributors. I'd love you to dump any comments / thoughts / feedback in that channel as they arise.
*Thread Reply:* oooh no I did not see that channel. I'll go join that one too!
*Thread Reply:* I translated this article into Japanese.
Original : https://cucumber.io/blog/bdd/example-mapping-introduction/ Japanese translation : https://nihonbuson.hatenadiary.jp/entry/ExampleMapping
And, I plan to translate these. • https://cucumber.io/blog/bdd/keep-your-scenarios-brief/ • “The BDD Books - Discovery” • “The BDD Books - Formulation” Of course I am in contact with Seb, Gaspar and Matt before starting these translations. Thank you for your support!
*Thread Reply:* It was so wonderful when you offered to do that translation ❤️
*Thread Reply:* Hi, Matt! Thank you for the wonderful original article!
*Thread Reply:* Awesome Carl!
Please note https://github.com/cucumber/godog/issues/406
If you're at all keen to get started as a contributor, you can book a 1:1 session with me to help you get on board at https://calendly.com/mattwynne
<a href="https://github.com/cucumber/godog">cucumber/godog</a>
*Thread Reply:* Not sure if the times in there will work for Oz - I'm on the west coast of the US on PST, but ping me if you're interested and we can find a time.
*Thread Reply:* Thanks matt. Appreciate the invite! I'll just have to check my time commitments, but I have to say, I'm excited 🙂 I love TDD myself and BDD with Gherkin just makes sense. I've also been writing Go since 2012. Would love to help out.
*Thread Reply:* That's fantastic to hear! I've just started learning go these past few months, it's fun but I feel like a total newbie!
*Thread Reply:* Welcome Bruno!
Please note https://github.com/cucumber/godog/issues/406
If you're at all keen to get started as a contributor to godog, you can schedule a 1:1 session with me to help you get on board at https://calendly.com/mattwynne
<a href="https://github.com/cucumber/godog">cucumber/godog</a>
*Thread Reply:* There's a cool example of Gherkin being used to document an HTTP API here: https://github.com/balanced/balanced-api/
*Thread Reply:* Great! We love feedback. What kind of problems did you encounter?
*Thread Reply:* Well, I have documented some of it in https://kolotyluk.github.io/opinions/Cucumber.html, but that is still incomplete, and I will attempt to improve it. Also, remember it's an 'opinion' piece intended to evoke thought, not to insult people. Feel free to criticize it as well, at my goal is to improve the quality of knowledge, not vent or troll...
*Thread Reply:* Thanks for writing this up! I completely agree with you about the state of the docs.
Most of my writing energy went into https://pragprog.com/titles/hwcuc2/the-cucumber-book-second-edition/ and Seb's has gone into http://www.bddbooks.com/. Nobody has really picked up the docs and done a holistic review on them, though we did give the pages at https://cucumber.io/docs/bdd/ a good working over.
Lately I have been working on the (free) videos at https://school.cucumber.io/ which I highly recommend, but you're absolutely right that the docs need some attention very soon. It's embarrassing and, as you say, causes friction.
*Thread Reply:* To your question about who writes the feature files, here's my take: https://cucumber.io/docs/bdd/
*Thread Reply:* If you had any energy to suggest or even help us implement specific changes to the docs, that would be amazing!
*Thread Reply:* I just started a new job this week, so I have been overwhelmed with onboarding... I would be happy to help with docs, especially while I am learning, and hopefully make the path easier for newbies coming after me...
*Thread Reply:* That would be so good. As you pointed out, the curse of knowledge makes it much harder for people like me to spot the holes in the docs. Your beginners mind is a gift!
*Thread Reply:* @Kate Dames Hey! I'm so excited to read this message 😀 @matt-SmartBear hosts new contributor sessions most Fridays at (I think) 10am PST which we would love for you to join if that was possible? Here is a link to the <#C028E2TBDJQ|new-contributors> channel where you can view some of the previous sessions and get an idea of how they work. Matt can also spend some time with you in a 1-1 session first so you can get a feel for things/ask lots of questions. WDYT? 😀
*Thread Reply:* Thanks @Jo Laing I was wondering where the elusive <#C028E2TBDJQ|new-contributors> channel is that I read about on the community doc welcome page! I've watched some of the previous sessions, not sure I'm quite ready for that level of involvement yet. It looks a bit overwhelming. What would feel more comfortable is jumping in with something I am more comfortable with, which is testing. Is there a place where I can contribute bugs / get a list of things to be tested perhaps?
*Thread Reply:* OK, gotcha! Sounds good and yes, we can totally point you to some issues in GitHub you can look through to see if there is anything you can work on. I'm gonna wait for @matt-SmartBear to come online and guide you further if that's ok?
*Thread Reply:* Welcome @Kate Dames! 🎉 I can promise and vouch that even if you feel nervous or inexperienced, working with folks like @matt-SmartBear is always a wonderful time. We're all aware that different folks have different levels of skill and can guide appropriately.
On top of that, one of the best ways to learn things that one may not be familiar with is by doing! ❤️
*Thread Reply:* Hi Kate, welcome!
I'm glad the mob mentality show piqued your interest in our little corner of the world 👍:skintone2: 🎉
I'm struggling to be around much at work this week - my kids' schools are closed because of COVID - but if you like we could schedule some time next week for a chat to find out more about what you're interested in and where you'd like to contribute. Does that sound like a good place to start?
https://calendly.com/mattwynne
*Thread Reply:* Thanks @matt-SmartBear! I scheduled half an hour. Look forward to become part of the community!
*Thread Reply:* In the meantime I'm working through the community pages and seeing what the school has on offer. Looks pretty cool!
*Thread Reply:* Hi Josh, I have just been doing the same thing. I'm happy to share my findings if you like
*Thread Reply:* that would be awesome, today is my technical spike to find out the best way... so any extra info would be so helpful
*Thread Reply:* so we have a nodejs (typescript + graphql) backend using jest. i need to write BDD unit tests for this app
*Thread Reply:* I'd love to be wrong about this, but I don't think you can use cucumber-js and jest together. However, I have been successful in using cucumber-js, ts-node, chai and rewiremock
*Thread Reply:* I managed to test fullstack too if that interests you. I have react-app + nodejs backend tested together on cucumber-js
*Thread Reply:* @Rob Myers this is the result of our conversation: https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber-js/issues/1890 😄 cc @David Goss
<a href="https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber-js">cucumber/cucumber-js</a>
*Thread Reply:* @Martin Brugger Hi! If you can say a little about where you got stuck over in the #help channel, someone should be able to take a look and see if they can offer any help to get you moved on.
*Thread Reply:* Hi @Jo Laing. I managed to solve the first problem myself shortly after joining the slack channel. (I had another cucumber extension installed I needed to remove first) But I will use the #help channel if I am stuck again.
*Thread Reply:* :grinningfacewithstareyes: awesome, glad to hear it! Thanks for the update 👍:skintone2:
*Thread Reply:* Hi David, you've come to the right place! Have you checked out https://school.cucumber.io?
*Thread Reply:* Welcome from another drummer :drumwithdrumsticks: 👋 (though I pretty much exclusively play my desk while coding these days 😂)
*Thread Reply:* Oh wow! The next time you are headed to Atlanta please let me know so we can meet for lunch or coffee or a bagel.
*Thread Reply:* @Leslie Brooks I’ve run the Peachtree many times! I’m also in the Atlanta area.
*Thread Reply:* @Jeff Wilson Where in Atlanta are you located, and where do you work? I would love to get together sometime and compare notes.
*Thread Reply:* I work for AT&T. I work remote (Duluth) most of the time, but I’m in the office (Alpharetta) most Wednesdays.
*Thread Reply:* I am in Dunwoody, so it should be pretty easy to meet for coffee or a bagel when you would like to.
Home this is the right place here, I just wanted to let you know that tomorrow in Kiel (Germany) there is a little conference regarding BDD (and some other topics just in case someone near there likes to join: https://www.meetup.com/de-DE/nordic-coding/events/289083334/
Welcome to the team! submission from @Łukasz Chruściel *What's your name? * Łukasz Chruściel *Tell us about yourself. What brought you here? * For the last 9 years (and beginning of my career) I'm involved in development and maintenance of Sylius - Open Source PHP eCommerce framework, which embraced BDD even before me joining it. Therefore, Behaviour Driven Development is something that I know all my working-life, and still in love with it. I'm thrilled to finally join BDD community and have someone to discuss our successes and struggles. If you wish to check out what've done, you can find our code here: https://github.com/Sylius/Sylius *And finally: share a fun fact about yourself! * I love playing board games ♔🎲 and I'm a (newby) sailer ⛵
